For the CoM / CoL relationship to get a stable-yet-maneuverable craft, I'd recommend doing the tweaks in two stages. No, the intakes don't have to be vertical. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. In principle it's simple just place your fuel symmetrically around the dry CoM, and centre your vertical thrust vector on it but how? Privacy Policy. We're also not discussing helicopters here, because stock kerbals have not invented the propeller, and stock propellers are a whole big topic of their own. Try not to make your first airplanes longer than 3 MK1 fuselages. NEVER go forwards, causing the aircraft to crash itself. I've never found them to be practical (at least on Kerbin) for anything except short flights around the KSC and flying to the island runway and back. That's what this guide is all about, so we're not talking about VTOL rockets that don't make use of wings to produce lift. Ill edit this sometime this week. Also: high proportion of lifting surfaces to non-lifting surfaces. However, don't put any fuel tanks on it yet, and empty any fuel-containing parts that you are using. Regular HTOL aircraft can afford to be a bit sloppy with this because aerodynamic forces will effectively obliterate moderate shifts in CoM -- if your plane gets a bit more tail-happy as the tanks drain it's no problem, as long as your CoM stays ahead of your CoL. Mostly anyway. if that does not work, lower the spring strength until it works properly. Powered by Invision Community. Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an . For most small-to-normal-sized craft, you should end up with CoL sitting right at the back of the yellow CoM ball. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. This reduces the amount of trim you need to apply to get the craft level in flight. All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! Eventually you either crash, or you reach a high enough speed that SAS wiggling can't cause a significant enough difference in engine speeds. SAS sees this and turns the other way, which just causes the same problem in the other direction. Such a simple and basic tip, but so unknown throughout KSP. Your link has been automatically embedded. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. Display as a link instead, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. Your plane will be slow and have limited range, or you'll have to make it a lot bigger to brute-force your way around that limitation. Have fun with your S/VTOL craft and don't forget there are more ways to do them as well, including helicopter-like things that don't fly aerodynamically at all. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. Set the thrust limiter on your main engines to zero. Kerbal Space Program, how do you disable autosave? Please see the. There's no tutorial in KSP that explains plane design to you and this guide could have taken the lead on that. Remember the, fuel flows from the front in KSP, so you might want to start off with the CoM in front of the CoL. Some general pointers to make more stable aircraft, one is to set your COL just behind your COM, another is that your centre of drag should be as far back as possible - there's no way to visually show this as far as I know but a light but aerodynamically bulky rear to an aircraft generally makes it more stable. Hi @Brikoleur, nice work! After the drag was sorted out, it wasn't very hard to create a dockable SSTO version. A twin-pod design is similar to a twin-boom, except that it has a conventional tail extending from the fuselage. To fly a VTOL craft, you need to be able to perform the following actions, which must be bound to a an action group: If you have full RCS control, you will additionally need control for that, and if your hoverjets are inside pods, you will want a control for toggling them too. Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an air intake or other air-sucking device (you can find them in aerodynamics) on the airplane. Valentina would really appreciate if I could get my airplane off the ground, but it keeps exploding on the runway by the exact same failure mode: The plane veers to one side or another, either I or SAS correct it, which starts a left/right wobble, which builds until one of the wings hits pavement, at which point the craft quickly brings Valentina to her untimely end. You can park a ship into an elliptical . Paste as plain text instead, You know you don't have enough if you're getting engine flame-outs on take-off or, worse, landing. Remember the, fuel flows from the front in KSP, so you might want to start off with the CoM in front of the CoL. You want to start by attaching a Mk 0 Liquid Fuel Tank under the wings, making sure you're mirrored so it goes under both wings. You will need more jets at the nose and tail than on the wingtips, as there will be more forces on pitch when transitioning to or from level flight. For more information, please see our https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. Two MacBook Pro with same model number (A1286) but different year. For your first flight, it may be easiest to ignore yaw altogether and just maneuver by rolling slightly and pitching. Lift, the canard button), and finally CoT (Center of Thrust, the thruster button) 2. Good, strong control authority - instead of reducing the pitch control authority, make the plane aerodynamically stable, so that even if you do flip it, it will right itself. Now to try it on one of those high altitude missions. How to keep an airplane stable on the runway in Kerbal Space Program? In addition to the tips others have suggested, try locking steering on all your wheels. It's a flatbed freighter suitable for shuttling base modules to and from the surface. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. CoL (Blue ball) position relative to CoM (Yellow ball) is very important. My first VTOL craft was the Bumblebee, and it's still one of my favourites! You can post now and register later. They can be placed on wings. by fixing the suspension issues the need to sacrifice traction, and in turn, braking power, is not needed. Turns out it was wheel positioning! If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I've been playing around with aircraft over the past couple days, only to find that no matter how low I set the pitch authority, they tumble and crash at the slightest hold of the "S" key. Sometimes though, planes need to do more complex jobs, like flying farther or making it to space, so I am planning on adding another guide to explain how to make and what to consider in an SSTO spaceplane. First off, make sure you are using the newest version of Kerbal Space Program, and it is NOT pirated, when you buy it, the devs get helped out. Valve Corporation. The solution is to house the hoverjets in a cargo bay of some kind, with the doors opening downwards. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? hope you and others find that useful in the future! My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Please help, This is an okay guide but it does not go into the nuts and bolts of the deal.like what exactly do all of these wing parts do? Not so with VTOLs: if the CoM shifts, you're not going to be able to land vertically anymore. Do you by chance know how much the thrust varies with these small velocity perturbations? So thanks for the pointers - I'll take a look (and try to cure my prejudice re canards). Now for the engines. Getting a plane of the round isn't that hard. Aircraft are surprisingly difficult beasts to build and control, building a stable, flyable aircraft is surprising complicated, so this is the first of a num. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? It also depends on whether you're using FAR or another aerodynamic rewrite mod that would change the way your aircraft behave. (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Absolute Beginner's Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKgGHrNZnz2ca8NVuyj7eHXc Craft File - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cfFBMm4EBhDh8mQ2UuOn9f5DL6jBgM05/view?usp=drivesdk0:00 - Introduction1:42 - Planning our Science Collection3:36 - Starting our Build4:49 - Changing Symmetry Mode6:40 - Adding Fuel8:07 - Adding Jet Engines \u0026 Air Intakes9:10 - Adding Wings \u0026 Elevons10:55 - Adding a Tail12:03 - Understanding Center of Lift16:24 - Understanding Control Surfaces18:31 - Adding Landing Gear22:25 - Summary Pasted as rich text. If it doesn't, he can just make the stabilizer bigger; instead of turning down control authority, just add more fixed wing. Is there any way to reliably fix this? The writing is a bit disjointed, because it's been edited and restructured a few times andI'm not a native english speaker. And start small. The Cyclone uses Aerospikes for propulsion. I had my rear wheels mounted on the tail, and it seems the taper of the tail messed up the angle of the wheels creating instability. Take the large delta wings and place them on the aircraft. Cookie Notice In other words, your fuel tanks need to be placed symmetrically around the centre of mass so it doesn't shift as the tanks dry, and you need to get your vertical thrust vector exactly aligned with said centre of mass. The CoL should be behind the CoM on a horizontal angle, unless you're building a shuttle. But it should most definitely be in front of it, and preferably NEVER move behind it, even with empty fuel tanks. These should be in the bottom left next to the display of the cost of the aircraft. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). Kerbal Space Program max Surface Sample storage? You need enough intakes to keep them fed. Drive gently off the runway and use the huge grassy field to take off, without care in the world about the plane veering to a side. I've found a few body plans to be especially amenable to conversion to VTOL. You can post now and register later. I actually like canard layouts, but I'm going to endorse this post because it's a simple, easy way to do it. A bigger twin-boom design using two arrays of 18 Junos on each boom and a single array of 9 on the nose. I would really suggest this guide for beginners trying to get into the world of planes in Kerbal Space Program. Put the big wings right at the back of the plane. I can make a design that's quite good at hovering, landing, and maneuvering around a site like a helicopter, but it'll be crap as an actual aerodynamic plane- as the control surfaces and wing setup are designed for forward flight - and for hovering I want something that has no forward-bias (ever started sliding backwards in a vtol craft designed for otherwise normal forward flight? Now put on center of mass and center of lift view, and move the delta wings until the center of lift is slightly behind of the center of mass - not in front, otherwise your aircraft will be able to easily flip out of control. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. 5. The fastest known plane demonstrated, in version 0.23, a top speed of about 2377 m/s relative to Kerbin's surface just short of Mach 7. Sparks will fit in Mk 1 utility bays, the bigger ones will fit in the bigger cargo bays (Mk 2, 2.5m utility bay, Mk 3). Haha I think Ive perfected an aestheticallyclean turbine jet VTOL USAF F-35b Lightning II2020 https://imgur.com/gallery/918HyM4 https://imgur.com/gallery/f0NDJxR. Powered by Invision Community. Air-breathing hoverjetsneedintakes. Once you got a hang of these, try bigger stuff. If it is, you'll never get the nose off the runway. You should have something called an "Elevon 1"; this will be the moving part for your wings. Before you can make a successful plane, you must understand what makes a plane go in places other than the ground - the wings. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! This would certainly have to be revised once Breaking Ground drops, those parts are extremely relevant for VTOL. If you placed the main wings at the centre of mass and then added the smaller wings behind, this should be correct already. The hoverjets are housed in the big wing-mounted pods. You can pick the main cockpit and rotate the whole craft with it in SPH to see where your CoL will drift. Building planes is one of the more fun things to do in Kerbal Space Program, and also leads to more science on kerbin and eventually SSTO spaceplanes. This makes one engine generate more thrust than the other, exacerbating the turn. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. Most of my planes I'm able to knock each of them down to 40% and still perform 7-8G maneuvers. They both create a dihedral effect, tending to return you to level through a roll-sideslip interaction. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. To start off with, use ANY cockpit you want, this tutorial is going to teach you how to make anything using anything, as long as you follow these directions. Which reverse polarity protection is better and why? I've spent some time scouring the internet for ways of solving this problem, and found a number of pieces of advice on preventing wobble and improving planes in general, some of which made it into the above list, but Valentina's still dying, and I'm tired of Kerbal funerals. Build yourself a plane. Additionally if you have any off-center fuel tanks, double check the fuel is drawn from both at the same rate (same priority). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. So yes, it most definitely is possible. Could a subterranean river or aquifer generate enough continuous momentum to power a waterwheel for the purpose of producing electricity? There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. A VTOLaircraftas discussed here is a craft that's designed to fly aerodynamically, using lift produced by lifting surfaces, but take off and land vertically. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. You need to sign in or create an account to do that. Just like with rockets, get some courageous Kerbal in the cockpit and let's get started! Also as others have pointed out, keeping the COM/COL/COT alignments proper is essential for aircraft. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Intriguingly, there is one thing I've found that does prevent the wobble from starting, and that is to use a single engine mounted directly on the back of the fuselage, which prevents using a tail and is ultimately a fairly significant restriction to build around. Your main lift, though, should always be as closely centered on your CoM as you can manage. All rights reserved. They have in common that it's easy to tweak the balance by moving things around, rather than having to add or remove pieces. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. In that vein I drag optimized the Karmilla, and added science parts. We look at the principles behind designing a basic jet. You cannot paste images directly. What version is the Kerbal Space Program demo? This is always my strategy for building planes (although sometimes things go horribly wrong for a different reason.) We look at the principles behind designing a basic jet. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. @gocket the reason why your solution works is because you are counteracting the imbalance of friction in the wheels as they wobble. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. i recently used a single whiplash plane and was able to maintain a stable 21-22k meter altitude. What Trump's very stable geniuses lack in intelligence they more than make up for in confidence. Even though it just spawned. Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device. 4. - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. Thanks to this guide I did my first ever landing on the VAB helipad! Level:Intermediate/Advanced:You need to be able to slap together a plane that flies reasonably well before attempting a VTOL.Background reading:Start with the fantastic Basic Aircraft Design tutorial in this very forum.Craft used to illustrate this tutorial: VTOL stands for "Vertical Take-Off and Landing." Have you noticed this or do you think I might just need more vertical engines when using horizontal intakes only? As such, you will need various control surfaces. Your previous content has been restored. Kerbin has some biomes that are difficult to reach any other way. That should just about do it for basic planes. Jets are good for a certain amount of static thrust but they don't allow quick control of your vertical speed because of their slow spool time. Center of Mass - The average of all weight on the plane, this tool will show where gravity will pull . She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. They're obviously bigger and less efficient than conventional landers again because of the extra engines you're hauling; the advantage is being able to land them exactly where you want, while having the capability to explore the planet with atmospheric flight. Start with simplest, easiest planes you can and then increase complexity observing and mitigating problems as they arise. The further along in plane-building experience and flying you go, the more designing them becomes more natural(and the more this guide becomes irrelevant :( ). I was a diehard rocketer (5k hours or so) until a month ago and then suddenly got the spaceplane bug, I can now see why some people (*cough*Val*cough*) come out with dozens of designs: it's neat when it works so well. User without create permission can create a custom object from Managed package using Custom Rest API. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. 19000m. The most helpful thing to do would probably be to make a craft and share it so things you're doing wrong can easily be pointed out for you to fix. You don'thave touse their fuel capacity you might want to leave them dry if they're not symmetrical to the CoM. If you forget to put an air intake on your airplane, don't worry! A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program. Nah, the stabilizer will do it. Flight records. Finally, it is really difficult to land a HTOL atmospheric craft on Duna because of the thin air: you'll be going really fast and terrain is really bumpy, so there's a huge risk of ending up as a big ball of fire, whereas it's very hard to land a conventional rocket lander precisely,like when you're aiming for your surface base. 3. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. You can "smooth" controls by toggling capslock on your keyboard, the control indicators in the bottom left will turn blue from orange and they are instance dependant (if you revert your flight you'll have to toggle capslock again). front, then it automatically disbalances the weight moving the weight to the back. If you (or SAS) turns even just a little, the engine opposite your turn will have a higher velocity than the one towards your turn. Control your vector primarily with pitch, and your descent rate with throttle. Does the order of validations and MAC with clear text matter? On the other hand, something with a wide wingspan but narrow wings (like the connector Cs) will pitch easily but need more oomph to roll. That SAS can hold a craft stable doesn't mean it's a stable craft. What is Wario dropping at the end of Super Mario Land 2 and why? So the ones that go straight up and down can only be straight up and down, no angling left, right, backwards or forwards such as when you place the little wheel on the angled body of the cockpit part. Before building planes though, there are some inportant things to know. For more information, please see our I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. I might try to write a more advanced guide for spaceplane construction. Somebody figured out how to make a stable orbit inside of the atmosphere Scan this QR code to download the app now. LTTP again (KSP on hiatus for a bit), but here's an answer anyway. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Their hoverjets just have a TWR of less than 1.0. Switch on the CoM and CoT overlays. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Some more advanced tips you can use in the guide: In stock (no FAR) game to have a stable plane its also important to place control surfaces behind the wings, since their lift increases faster with AoA. Would I be better unlocking more parts and leaving this contract for later? You can either go with four "LY-O1 Fixed" or a tricycle of two LY-01 near the back and one "LY-05 Steerable" at the front; either is fine for now. Interesting, though even being exponential theres a chance it starts out so small it takes longer than a takeoff to reach noticeable levels. By also, you state that a stabilizer (you called it a tail) isn't necessary, and although that's true, it's worth noting that a stabilizer is vital in preventing, and recovering, from flat spins, which can be extremely dangerous. LTTP but anyway: the question is, practical for what? For comparison the speed of a stable Low Kerbin Orbit at 70 km (outside the atmosphere . ps. TO achieve the easisest way to balance the fuel tanks i never put usable fuel tank in where i cant move ti easily eg. Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. Set up your control scheme: one action group for toggling the hover jets, another action group for toggling the main jets, plus yet another one to toggle the hover jet bays, if you're using them (as you should). Powered by Invision Community. do you put them vertically or are they at an angle to the ground? You should be able to navigate fairly readily, and with the superb efficiency of jet engines, you should have plenty of fuel to go anywhere you need to go. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. All rights reserved. Your link has been automatically embedded. When you're close to it, INCREASE THROTTLE until your rate of descent nears zero. Use Pilot Assistant - it's SAS is meant for aircraft rather than general ( read: rocket ) use. If that all fails, you may try building your plane lighter and with mightier (or just more) engines, so it just doesn't have the time to start misbehaving on the runway before you bring it up in the air. This page was last edited on 19 February 2020, at 07:08. 2. Clear editor. The same applies to Laythe, although it has gentler topography. At this point you'll probably need to go back to the plane design you started with, because air intakes are dry mass and will shift the CoM as you add them. When your airspeed is near zero and you're above your landing spot, reduce throttle until you start descending. Stunt planes tend to go for the latter layout and use powerful ailerons, because getting more roll authority is easier than getting more pitch and causes much fewer knock-on effects. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. If the fuel flows from the. Another possibility to add to the existing answers (it's a bit hard to diagnose without seeing the plane) is that your landing gear might be insufficient for your plane's mass. [1] At this speed it is possible to circumnavigate Kerbin in about 29 minutes at an altitude of 40 km. As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. About the landing gear, the best way to stop the weird self steering issue is to increase the spring and damper strength. Next question? (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://. I've had a lot of people comment that their planes veer off the runway or flip around madly even though they think they got everything right. The BAK Zephyr, a rocket-powered VTOL craft designed for conducting science missions on Duna. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. Wheels need to be touching the ground exactly as they were intended to, you cannot angle them in any direction other then their intended direction when placing them. KSP should be handing out engineering degrees :). To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Unless you are using canards (not ideal for lots of reasons, IMHO), adding elevons will pull the CoL backwards since they also provide lift in their neutral position. You cannot paste images directly. air) that high up. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. The buttons show you CoM (Center of Mass, The anvil button), CoL (Center of, Lift, the canard button), and finally CoT (Center of Thrust, the thruster button). Unexpected uint64 behaviour 0xFFFF'FFFF'FFFF'FFFF - 1 = 0? Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. With a decent lever arm to work with you can be both perfectly stable in level flight and very agile in pitch and yaw controls. The CoL should be in the center or just behind the CoM.